[ He certainly hopes she'll one day become someone he can convince to kill someone willy-nilly if the need arises. But trust and relationships have to be built up before that can be achieved. Patience! ]
I had that talk with someone else. What do we do with certain individuals? Echo and Aurora seem to not care about the situation because we monitor ourselves.
[ The situation with Hannibal Lecter never finished in a way that he was wholly satisfied with because he was fascinated by how everyone would react and what they would do. The restrictions people place on themselves for the society that everyone here is making remain enchanting to watch. ]
Confining them is its own issue, is it not? These people are still brought here to ensure the continuation of their universe. Which means if they are not able to live and interact within Etraya, are we not also damning those lives? [ Fun food for thought; one that he has been munching on and happy to give it to her while sounding as sympathetic as possible.
It's easy to have a thought experiment when you're outside the experiment. ]
There is someone I know that says everyone is allowed three chances. This can be their second. [ His mouth softens to a kind smile. ] As dangerous as she is, I consider you one of my own... if it's all right to view you as such... and won't allow harm to come to you.
Yes, that's the other problem. There are several people here from my world, but Jinx is... She must have been chosen by Echo for a reason, mustn't she? [Caitlyn can't fathom what that reason is, but obviously Echo must have one.] I want to save my world, not have it condemned because of Jinx. One way or another.
[Huff. Sigh.]
That's very... [She doesn't quite know what to say, but it's clear from her tone that she's genuinely touched that Vincent considers her 'one of his own.'] I won't allow harm to come to you, either.
Perhaps, that is the reason why she is chosen. Some sort of moral test? Since it seems like we are on our own when it comes to morality. Echo and Aurora stay out of our business when it comes to what we, personally, view as right and wrong.
[ Something he's still thinking about, honestly. Perhaps, it is going down the wrong rabbit hole, but he does find the concept fascinating.
But is surprised to hear that she won't let anything happen to him. ]
What criteria do you believe Echo is actually testing? By what measure is the worthiness of our worlds being measured? I've spoken with Aurora and she's not forthcoming on any details.
I've been mulling over this information myself. I've found myself down a rabbit hole and uncertain if it is the right one or not. I believe our morality may be judged by how we feel about it.
For example, if you kill someone but feel no guilt about that kill; Echo will not view it as a sin or wrong. No matter how many people may be upset about the fact someone has died, if we know that person can come back, can we call our outrage "outrage?" Where are our feelings on the morality of resurrection and death? Where is it in the wrongs that we do?
If we truly see nothing wrong with the heinous actions that we commit, are we still sinners outside that universe? Can we be judged by the crimes we committed? By whose morality and why theirs? If enough consensus is built, will that create the morality of Etraya and Echo? Will that make the decision of who will be saved?
[She says it almost pleadingly. Life is a lot more complicated, she's realizing, than her upbringing had led her to believe, but she has to cling to the idea that some things still make sense.]
We can't condemn a world and all its inhabitants merely because one representative fails to live up to some sort of... morality by consensus. Or whatever the true standard of judgment is. If I – or Jinx – fail these tests, I don't understand why millions of people that neither of us have ever met should perish.
[ Of course, he wonders what it would look like - universal standards of morality. ]
Let me ask you something first, Caitlyn. Do you think the missions to come are collaborative or competitive? Which is to say do you think you're competing against everyone here to save your universe, or helping others to prove their worth?
[ Well, they are viewing things differently, but that works out for him. ]
Then, it makes sense that it can't be too easy for us. If everyone who is chosen is a good person like you, then how are we going to see what universes are worthwhile?
We have to struggle against our moralities and righteousness... and see if we can live up to what we have been. That is why I think more difficult people are brought... if we choose to abandon and leave them to die for our survival, do we deserve to live?
After all, part of the millions of people we're saving are people just like them.
[She hadn't considered that before, but it makes sense. From a certain perspective, at least. Still, she's struggling with the morality of all of this. Not just Jinx and her presence, but Echo too.]
I don't see why we should need to prove whether or not we deserve to live. Life isn't a matter of deserving or undeserving, really. Why should anyone, including Echo, get to choose who lives and who dies?
[ It's also profit and loss - and how useful any life is. ]
I suppose that, too, is the morality that we're fighting to prove here, too. And, perhaps, even if there is a finite amount of universes that can survive, it doesn't mean that those representatives who are here aren't among the unchosen.
What if those who have no representatives are lost but we are all saved? [ Another fun little thought, if he's honest. ]
But what isn't speculation is this... I shall defer to you on what to do. Those people are those you know and in the short amount of time we've spoken to one another, I do trust you. And... we've agreed to be there for one another.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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I had that talk with someone else. What do we do with certain individuals? Echo and Aurora seem to not care about the situation because we monitor ourselves.
[ The situation with Hannibal Lecter never finished in a way that he was wholly satisfied with because he was fascinated by how everyone would react and what they would do. The restrictions people place on themselves for the society that everyone here is making remain enchanting to watch. ]
Confining them is its own issue, is it not? These people are still brought here to ensure the continuation of their universe. Which means if they are not able to live and interact within Etraya, are we not also damning those lives? [ Fun food for thought; one that he has been munching on and happy to give it to her while sounding as sympathetic as possible.
It's easy to have a thought experiment when you're outside the experiment. ]
There is someone I know that says everyone is allowed three chances. This can be their second. [ His mouth softens to a kind smile. ] As dangerous as she is, I consider you one of my own... if it's all right to view you as such... and won't allow harm to come to you.
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[Huff. Sigh.]
That's very... [She doesn't quite know what to say, but it's clear from her tone that she's genuinely touched that Vincent considers her 'one of his own.'] I won't allow harm to come to you, either.
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[ Something he's still thinking about, honestly. Perhaps, it is going down the wrong rabbit hole, but he does find the concept fascinating.
But is surprised to hear that she won't let anything happen to him. ]
... that so? Well, thank you... I appreciate it.
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For example, if you kill someone but feel no guilt about that kill; Echo will not view it as a sin or wrong. No matter how many people may be upset about the fact someone has died, if we know that person can come back, can we call our outrage "outrage?" Where are our feelings on the morality of resurrection and death? Where is it in the wrongs that we do?
If we truly see nothing wrong with the heinous actions that we commit, are we still sinners outside that universe? Can we be judged by the crimes we committed? By whose morality and why theirs? If enough consensus is built, will that create the morality of Etraya and Echo? Will that make the decision of who will be saved?
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[She says it almost pleadingly. Life is a lot more complicated, she's realizing, than her upbringing had led her to believe, but she has to cling to the idea that some things still make sense.]
We can't condemn a world and all its inhabitants merely because one representative fails to live up to some sort of... morality by consensus. Or whatever the true standard of judgment is. If I – or Jinx – fail these tests, I don't understand why millions of people that neither of us have ever met should perish.
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[ Of course, he wonders what it would look like - universal standards of morality. ]
Let me ask you something first, Caitlyn. Do you think the missions to come are collaborative or competitive? Which is to say do you think you're competing against everyone here to save your universe, or helping others to prove their worth?
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The latter, I'd like to think.
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Then, it makes sense that it can't be too easy for us. If everyone who is chosen is a good person like you, then how are we going to see what universes are worthwhile?
We have to struggle against our moralities and righteousness... and see if we can live up to what we have been. That is why I think more difficult people are brought... if we choose to abandon and leave them to die for our survival, do we deserve to live?
After all, part of the millions of people we're saving are people just like them.
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I don't see why we should need to prove whether or not we deserve to live. Life isn't a matter of deserving or undeserving, really. Why should anyone, including Echo, get to choose who lives and who dies?
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[ It's also profit and loss - and how useful any life is. ]
I suppose that, too, is the morality that we're fighting to prove here, too. And, perhaps, even if there is a finite amount of universes that can survive, it doesn't mean that those representatives who are here aren't among the unchosen.
What if those who have no representatives are lost but we are all saved? [ Another fun little thought, if he's honest. ]
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Until we find a way to talk to Echo, or somehow find more information about them, this is all mere speculation.
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But what isn't speculation is this... I shall defer to you on what to do. Those people are those you know and in the short amount of time we've spoken to one another, I do trust you. And... we've agreed to be there for one another.
I think that's the best we can do for now.
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[No one's ever put that kind of faith in her before. She's surprised, but she's going to take it very, very seriously.]
Yes. Of course. We'll be there for one another. And if anything changes, you'll hear about it. I promise.
In the meantime, we'll... keep doing what we can. To uncover this place's secrets.
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[ Well, this is nice. He will have to try to figure out how to bring up learning about the Order soon. Yes, everything is going well. ]
Yes. One foot in front of the other, and all that.