What criteria do you believe Echo is actually testing? By what measure is the worthiness of our worlds being measured? I've spoken with Aurora and she's not forthcoming on any details.
I've been mulling over this information myself. I've found myself down a rabbit hole and uncertain if it is the right one or not. I believe our morality may be judged by how we feel about it.
For example, if you kill someone but feel no guilt about that kill; Echo will not view it as a sin or wrong. No matter how many people may be upset about the fact someone has died, if we know that person can come back, can we call our outrage "outrage?" Where are our feelings on the morality of resurrection and death? Where is it in the wrongs that we do?
If we truly see nothing wrong with the heinous actions that we commit, are we still sinners outside that universe? Can we be judged by the crimes we committed? By whose morality and why theirs? If enough consensus is built, will that create the morality of Etraya and Echo? Will that make the decision of who will be saved?
[She says it almost pleadingly. Life is a lot more complicated, she's realizing, than her upbringing had led her to believe, but she has to cling to the idea that some things still make sense.]
We can't condemn a world and all its inhabitants merely because one representative fails to live up to some sort of... morality by consensus. Or whatever the true standard of judgment is. If I – or Jinx – fail these tests, I don't understand why millions of people that neither of us have ever met should perish.
[ Of course, he wonders what it would look like - universal standards of morality. ]
Let me ask you something first, Caitlyn. Do you think the missions to come are collaborative or competitive? Which is to say do you think you're competing against everyone here to save your universe, or helping others to prove their worth?
[ Well, they are viewing things differently, but that works out for him. ]
Then, it makes sense that it can't be too easy for us. If everyone who is chosen is a good person like you, then how are we going to see what universes are worthwhile?
We have to struggle against our moralities and righteousness... and see if we can live up to what we have been. That is why I think more difficult people are brought... if we choose to abandon and leave them to die for our survival, do we deserve to live?
After all, part of the millions of people we're saving are people just like them.
[She hadn't considered that before, but it makes sense. From a certain perspective, at least. Still, she's struggling with the morality of all of this. Not just Jinx and her presence, but Echo too.]
I don't see why we should need to prove whether or not we deserve to live. Life isn't a matter of deserving or undeserving, really. Why should anyone, including Echo, get to choose who lives and who dies?
[ It's also profit and loss - and how useful any life is. ]
I suppose that, too, is the morality that we're fighting to prove here, too. And, perhaps, even if there is a finite amount of universes that can survive, it doesn't mean that those representatives who are here aren't among the unchosen.
What if those who have no representatives are lost but we are all saved? [ Another fun little thought, if he's honest. ]
But what isn't speculation is this... I shall defer to you on what to do. Those people are those you know and in the short amount of time we've spoken to one another, I do trust you. And... we've agreed to be there for one another.
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chiming
no subject
Date: 2025-01-10 12:13 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2025-01-10 03:42 am (UTC)From:For example, if you kill someone but feel no guilt about that kill; Echo will not view it as a sin or wrong. No matter how many people may be upset about the fact someone has died, if we know that person can come back, can we call our outrage "outrage?" Where are our feelings on the morality of resurrection and death? Where is it in the wrongs that we do?
If we truly see nothing wrong with the heinous actions that we commit, are we still sinners outside that universe? Can we be judged by the crimes we committed? By whose morality and why theirs? If enough consensus is built, will that create the morality of Etraya and Echo? Will that make the decision of who will be saved?
no subject
Date: 2025-01-11 07:18 pm (UTC)From:[She says it almost pleadingly. Life is a lot more complicated, she's realizing, than her upbringing had led her to believe, but she has to cling to the idea that some things still make sense.]
We can't condemn a world and all its inhabitants merely because one representative fails to live up to some sort of... morality by consensus. Or whatever the true standard of judgment is. If I – or Jinx – fail these tests, I don't understand why millions of people that neither of us have ever met should perish.
no subject
Date: 2025-01-12 09:12 pm (UTC)From:[ Of course, he wonders what it would look like - universal standards of morality. ]
Let me ask you something first, Caitlyn. Do you think the missions to come are collaborative or competitive? Which is to say do you think you're competing against everyone here to save your universe, or helping others to prove their worth?
no subject
Date: 2025-01-13 12:54 am (UTC)From:The latter, I'd like to think.
no subject
Date: 2025-01-13 01:04 am (UTC)From:Then, it makes sense that it can't be too easy for us. If everyone who is chosen is a good person like you, then how are we going to see what universes are worthwhile?
We have to struggle against our moralities and righteousness... and see if we can live up to what we have been. That is why I think more difficult people are brought... if we choose to abandon and leave them to die for our survival, do we deserve to live?
After all, part of the millions of people we're saving are people just like them.
no subject
Date: 2025-01-13 06:55 am (UTC)From:I don't see why we should need to prove whether or not we deserve to live. Life isn't a matter of deserving or undeserving, really. Why should anyone, including Echo, get to choose who lives and who dies?
no subject
Date: 2025-01-15 04:17 am (UTC)From:[ It's also profit and loss - and how useful any life is. ]
I suppose that, too, is the morality that we're fighting to prove here, too. And, perhaps, even if there is a finite amount of universes that can survive, it doesn't mean that those representatives who are here aren't among the unchosen.
What if those who have no representatives are lost but we are all saved? [ Another fun little thought, if he's honest. ]
no subject
Date: 2025-01-16 01:09 am (UTC)From:Until we find a way to talk to Echo, or somehow find more information about them, this is all mere speculation.
no subject
Date: 2025-01-16 03:05 am (UTC)From:But what isn't speculation is this... I shall defer to you on what to do. Those people are those you know and in the short amount of time we've spoken to one another, I do trust you. And... we've agreed to be there for one another.
I think that's the best we can do for now.
no subject
Date: 2025-01-16 05:20 am (UTC)From:[No one's ever put that kind of faith in her before. She's surprised, but she's going to take it very, very seriously.]
Yes. Of course. We'll be there for one another. And if anything changes, you'll hear about it. I promise.
In the meantime, we'll... keep doing what we can. To uncover this place's secrets.
no subject
Date: 2025-01-16 07:16 am (UTC)From:[ Well, this is nice. He will have to try to figure out how to bring up learning about the Order soon. Yes, everything is going well. ]
Yes. One foot in front of the other, and all that.